Talk:Night of the Living Dead

Source that could be added.

Found a Vanity Fair article that may be useful for this page, but I'm not sure where to put it. https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2008/03/halloween-horror-movie-golden-age Cahlin29 (talk) 03:30, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Cahlin29! Is there something in the Vanity Fair article,^{[archive link]} that's missing from the Wikipedia article? Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:51, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Stepfather?

Do they specify stepfather? Barbra says they were at the cemetery to put a "wreath on my father's grave" around the 28 minute mark.[1] Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 14:54, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Streiner in cast

@Peter G Werner: If it is not undue, then could you cite a source to show that? And for Hardman's sound work as well? Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:12, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

How does one simply find a reference saying that mention of one character is or is not "undue weight"? I think the mere fact that ANY synopsis of the film is going to begin with the interaction of the Barbara and Johnny characters means that this is a key character. The fact that Russell Steiner is not mentioned in the credits is simply a historical oversight, perhaps union rules, but that's not the be-all-end-all of whether a role is substantial. As for Hardman's work as a music and sound effects editor, it's already stated elsewhere in the article. I will find external references to verify this, though. Peter G Werner (talk) 03:19, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

@Peter G Werner all aspects of WP:NPOV are determined from the cited sources. Just cite the sources. For Hardman, this interview is a primary source but solid for any factual details. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:30, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

But you're not challenging inclusion on NPOV grounds, you're challenging it based on "undue weight". And that seems to me to be your subjective judgement. Now more objectively, that would have to do with how often the Johnny character or Streiner is mentioned in valid secondary sources on this film, compared to other characters and the actors that played them. One can certainly find sources to substantiate Streiner's contribution to the film. (And I do intend to do so.) However, how does one summarize the HUGE body of literature on this film to determine the 'weight' that mention of a cast member is due, as opposed to other characters? I can certainly say that it's self-evident that Streiner's role is at least as substantial as Hinzman, Kosana, or Cordille, who are mentioned here as cast members.

BTW, in discussions of the Good Article nomination for this article, was there any discussion of inclusion of Steiner on the cast list? If there's a previous consensus about this that I'm going against, I'd take that into account. But so far, this just looks to me to be an oversight. Peter G Werner (talk) 03:42, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

"But you're not challenging inclusion on NPOV grounds, you're challenging it based on "undue weight"." Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#Due_and_undue_weight

"One can certainly find sources to substantiate Streiner's contribution to the film. (And I do intend to do so.)" Yes, that's what I'm asking.

"[...] determine the 'weight' that mention of a cast member is due, as opposed to other characters?" A source about the film's cast (rather than about Streiner) that talks about him as a castmember? Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 05:30, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

"A source about the film's cast (rather than about Streiner) that talks about him as a castmember?" Still not sure what you mean here. I'm not sure if I could readily find any source simply about "the film's cast" if I were asked to demonstrate that Karl Hardman was a key cast member. Peter G Werner (talk) 06:05, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

ADDENDUM: I've certainly found one such source:

Kane, Joe (2010). Night of The Living Dead : Behind the Scenes of The Most Terrifying Zombie Movie Ever. New York: Citadel Press. p. 41-42. ISBN 9780806533315. Retrieved 2025-03-25. (Requires Openlibrary access.)

It has an entire chapter on casting NotLD and discusses the role of Streiner as an actor.

My problem with the "Undue Weight" issue is that I feel like I'm being asked to evaluate the entire body of literature on NotLD and evaluate the importance of Russell Streiner's role in that context. That's kind of an impossible task, no matter which cast member we're talking about. Unless you're a NotLD scholar, I don't think you know the answer to that question either. Peter G Werner (talk) 06:47, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

As to your first link, that kind of begs the question. I've been asking you in good faith what an objective measure of "due weight" is for discussion of a cast member in this article, considering that there's no simple way to simply go through the entire body of literature on this film and come up with some metric on how much "weight" is given to discussion of Russell Steiner as a performer. So there's a certain degree of subjectivity and judgement calls here, but I think the claim that Streiner was so insubstantial as cast member that to even discuss him as a cast member constitutes WP:UNDUEWEIGHT is rather ludicrous, actually.

On the criterion of WP:VERIFIABILITY, of course that's entirely reasonable, and I'm actively working on verifying and citing every statement I've made about Streiner (and Hardman), and dropping anything that can't be cited. Peter G Werner (talk) 06:16, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

ADDENDUM: I suppose one could do a crude measure of the number Google results for each actor in connection to "Night of the Living Dead". Here's how Streiner comes out compared to a couple of other cast members:

• ("Night of the Living Dead" "Judith O'Dea" OR "Judy O'Dea" -wikipedia.org) = About 91,600 results
• ("Night of the Living Dead" "Russell Streiner" OR "Russell W. Streiner" -wikipedia.org) = About 23,700 results
• ("Night of the Living Dead" "George Kosana" -wikipedia.org) = About 7,400 results

One could do this for the entire cast list. I think Russell Streiner would come out somewhere in the middle of most mentioned cast members by that metric. Peter G Werner (talk) 04:13, 25 March 2025 (UTC)